I'm new, hi everyone, but I'd like to start out by saying that I am trying and have been trying to find the proper way to worship and believe in God. So I will ask some rather blatant and sometimes controversial questions. I joined this group particularly because I'm a confirmed Episcopalian.
Now aside from the whole gay bishop thing (I really don't care to worry about that aspect of scripture just yet) what do you say to the idea issue of predestination and free will? How do you see it? Are we free or is everything preplanned?
Before you answer please keep in mind that for both to exist at the same time is a contradiction. If God is constant and unchanging as most of western Christianity says, than he has everything planned out which means there is no free will and for that matter there is no love, because love is an action and it changes and moves as the people who recieve it have needs for different forms of love. Also that illiminates the power of prayer.
If however there is free will, than God does not know the future becuase the future is not written and thus there is something above or outside God's control. He is then not all powerful and omniscient.
Do you see my dilemma? I hope I've explained it fairly well. Please help or just engage me in a debate. Thank you.
Now aside from the whole gay bishop thing (I really don't care to worry about that aspect of scripture just yet) what do you say to the idea issue of predestination and free will? How do you see it? Are we free or is everything preplanned?
Before you answer please keep in mind that for both to exist at the same time is a contradiction. If God is constant and unchanging as most of western Christianity says, than he has everything planned out which means there is no free will and for that matter there is no love, because love is an action and it changes and moves as the people who recieve it have needs for different forms of love. Also that illiminates the power of prayer.
If however there is free will, than God does not know the future becuase the future is not written and thus there is something above or outside God's control. He is then not all powerful and omniscient.
Do you see my dilemma? I hope I've explained it fairly well. Please help or just engage me in a debate. Thank you.
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Re: Controversial
Fri, January 9, 2004 - 9:07 AMThe Calvinist theology of predestination (total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints) is a perversion of the Gospel as far as I'm concerned. This doctrine makes God into a monster who predestines most of humanity to damnation. If I believed this doctrine to be true, I could not be a Christian.
I believe it was C.S. Lewis who said that knowing something is going to happen is not the same thing as making it happen. Although God has foreknowledge of all that will occur, he didn't create a mechanistic or deterministic universe.
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Re: Controversial
Thu, June 16, 2005 - 1:08 PMHi Kit, I'm also new at this tribe thing.
In my view I think there is a bit of both. I think God constantly gives us choices, we are free to choose, of course our choices are limited by our abilities, our environment, our experiences, etc, but we can always expand those horizons.
As God said to Isaiah, his ways are not our ways, and we can not understand them.
Trust God, and ask the holy spirit to guide you and you'll find peace and answers to your dilemman.
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Re: Controversial
Fri, June 17, 2005 - 11:04 AMMy friend Bryan just posed this question with me a few weeks ago. I've never thought that the two ideas were all that contradictory. I seem to remember it being written in some biblical scripture that man is favored above the angels in that man was given free will. However I do believe that what is meant to happen does which indicates some belief in predestination.
I guess I resolved the issue by believing that once you make certain decisions your path is preordained. Like a road, God made it but you get to decided what fork to take. He decides where the road you take goes and where the next fork is and you decide which forks to take.
Does that make since? I don't know wether it fit in with Episcopal belife or not but, I'm confirmed as well. If it helps
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Re: Controversial
Sat, July 2, 2005 - 12:25 AMi think a lot of this can be attributed to our concept of time though. looking at time in a purely linear fashion...predestination and free will coexisting would be problematic.
however i feel that we are working on different levels of "time"
our earthly life is governed by a concept of time that is linear. however i imagine that "time" works quite differently for God. in this way in our linear time system...we have free will. however God is not contrained by the same rules...so while God has the abilty to see/know how things are going to turn out...God doesn't have the ability to personally affect it.
basically God already has the book of our life...and he can read from any page of that book. we are characters in that book in which he wrote the back story, yet we have taken on a life of our own.
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Re: Controversial
Fri, February 10, 2006 - 7:22 PMlove always allows all questions and freedom....think to ask to doubt......love is a demonstration not an inclination....i believe i belong to Christ totally..i believe i have a nature that pleases God and I know i have a nature that rebels and want to go my own way.the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.it is a constant battle to filled and led by the spirit.i believe being filled with his spirit of unconditional love for myself and responding to others with love without conditions.....love never uses force or manipulation...God is love
the biggest obstacle in my life is me....fortunately i am saved by grace and he will never let me go.
